Kit list for a Winter Walker

[Ingieuk]

Between Christmas and New Year me and a couple of mates are attempting the Yorkshire 3 peaks. we are all reasonably fit and have walked a reasonable amount separatly.

I was just wondering what you guys thought of the kitlist I have come up with, just to make sure there are no massive errors!

All of us have pretty good kit as we all work in the same gear shop in Darlington. So......

Headtorch (plus spare batteries)
GPS (plus spare batteries) -loaned by a supplier to try out
Map and guide + case (two of us have these, one doesn't)
Compass
Food
Water (how much im not sure)
Survival bag
First aid kit
Charged Mobile phone
Camera

Clothes wise:
Waterproof shell (wear)
Base layer x2 (one in pack one on)
Micro fleece (wear)
Soft shell (in pack)
Walking trousers + baselayer trousers (wear)
Waterproof trousers (in pack - i hope! :D)
Hat and gloves
Thick walking socks (wear)
Thin walking socks as spare (in pack)
Spare underwear + socks (in pack)
Boots (wear)
......clothes will all be bagged in drybags....


We are camping overnight in Horton-in-Ribblesdale so we will already have:
Stove + Gas, pans etc
Tent
Sleeping Bag + mat
Spare Shoes

Camping gear will be in my car awaiting our return and drive home that same day.

What do you guys think of the list? Too much? Too little?

Should we take our sleeping bags round with us?
Anyone know if there is mobile phone reception? Its not super remote, so maybe there will be, not that we are relying on it. Some of the gear will be spread between us.

How much water is advisable? Considering this is a 25mile walk n will take abnout 11 hours

Any help is greatly appreciated!!
Thanks in advance!

Rich

P.S. Great forum by the way!

[Ant]

Sounds good.

Can't really say much about the kit list.. no experience of winter camping and hiking. As for water, 2-4l per person, You have the equiptment to boil water so you could collect from mountain streams or melt snow if there is any (just rememer to collect water close to the source if using streams, and upstream of any possible source of pollution).

[Ingieuk]

Yeah, lookign at the map there are a couple of streams dotted around. not sure wether or not to take stove along with us, its a MSR so its bombproof dunno if its worth the extra weight/space, or am i just being a bit wet? lol. Iv got a 2l platypus, plus couple of siggs so should be fine water wise.

The only thing that is bothering me at the minute is navigating in the dark, anyone know how well trodden paths up phen-y-ghent whernside and inglebrough are?

Rich

[Marmot]

only that 4litres of water is another 4 kg of weight...?

[Anand]

Haven you tried out the headlamp in the dark? for waking, thats its bright and stuff doesn't mean thats its good for walking

i would suggest taking breathable mud/snow gaiters, mine have proven them everytime i used them, since you don't need to put on a full rain trousers. A bit of water/mud might wick the water making it totally damp/cold

normally i take about 2 liters and a 456 gram waterfilter, to make more on the way.

[Ant]

only that 4litres of water is another 4 kg of weight...?
exactly, which is why I mentioned collecting water as an alternitive

[MariaD]

For just 2 days, in winter, I'd ditch the soft shell. They come in handy in milder weather or longer trips, but in winter you'll just stick your waterproof on straight away. I'd also ditch 2 of your pairs of socks (the thin socks and the spare ones), the spare base layer and the spare shoes. You're only going for 2 days (have I understood this right?).

Otherwise, the list looks fine apart from one glaring omission - aren't you taking any kind of insulating layer at all (thick fleece, synthetic jacket etc.)? Take one - you'll need it when you stop moving at night.

Don't carry that much water, as there will be opportunities to stock up either from streams or local shops etc. (It's a friendly area, so people will generally be happy to fill your water bottle for you).

The paths are well trodden, so navigation shouldn't be an issue as long your headtorches work. A basic headtorch will be fine, as long as you have enough battery life. Mobile phone coverage is generally okay - there may be sheltered spots where you can't get a signal, but you should be able to make a call from most areas.

In the unlikely event that this area sees a lot of snowfall, you might need an axe. However, this is very unlikely so I wouldn't bother. (Having said that, Wharfedale was under snow 2 Christmases ago, so you never know...)

Have fun!

[clunk]

:) hello ritch , the campsight at horton is in a great spot , the pennyghent cafe is just a few yards away so you can clock on at the start ,
just walk to your right , down the road and past the old church and there is a road that heads up to the school on your left , go up the road and across the foot bridge and up past the front of the school to the farm , you will see the path at the side of the farm just follow the well worn path up to the top of penyghent ,
i did the three peaks this year but on seperate days so i dont know the whole route joining the peaks together , but i do know that there arn't any places to top your water up with clean water , there are plenty of boggs you can fill up at , so your purification system will come in handy ( especialy going up whernside , thats one huge boggy area , but they have put a stone path on it to keep you more or less dry ),
then once you come down off whernside and cross the river and the road , heading towards ingleborough there is another huge boggy area just before you start the walk / climb up there,
cant see anything wrong with your kit mate , just go and enjoy :D
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clunk

[clunk]

this is a picky of the route you will come up at whernside ( we are going down it ) and the boggy area is ahead on the right , there is a stream at the bottom so its up to you wether you feel its a safe bet

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0950.jpg

and this is a picky of the boggy area on the way up ingleborough , the shiny path is actually a board walk and it is the water beneath that's shining through the slats

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0985.jpg

and heres a picky of whernside from the path heading up to ingleborough, ( the river and main road cuts through the center )

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0969.jpg

anymore info just ask
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clunk

[clunk]

ohh and dont forget , even in the middle of summer when these pickys were taken ,it was freezing at the top of all the peaks , even at penyghent , the temp in horton was 30 degrees c but at the top it was nearer 7 c
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clunk

[MariaD]

...which is why you'll ned some form of insulation! A thick fleece should be fine, but you'll definitely need something to keep you warm.

(Btw - Clunk, are you sure about those temperatures? Those hills are only 2000ft high, which doesn't account for a 23°C drop in temperature. On a 30°C day it should have been in the low 20's on top.)

[clunk]

all i know maria , the temp at the car was 30 c and at the top i had to put mi fleece on :cool:
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clunk

[Marmot]

a change in temperature wouldnt only be due to altitude, wind chill for one

[MariaD]

If you do the calculations, it would take 40mph+ winds (literally gale force) to account for that kind of difference, and the photos show nothing more than a light breeze (I'm going by the fact that the jacket hoods aren't blowing anywhere & the vegetation is all standing upright).

I agree that you would probably need a fleece at the top even in summer, but the height alone would only account for about 6°C difference.

[clunk]

If you do the calculations, it would take 40mph+ winds (literally gale force) to account for that kind of difference, and the photos show nothing more than a light breeze (I'm going by the fact that the jacket hoods aren't blowing anywhere & the vegetation is all standing upright).

I agree that you would probably need a fleece at the top even in summer, but the height alone would only account for about 6°C difference.
ja vol mein frau , now will you please take the nipple clamps off please , ( you wern't an interrogator in the nazi party were you :confused:)
chill out
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clunker

[clunk]

ohh and we were sweating and it was bloody cold up top, so there
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clunk

[clunk]

this is a picky of me at the top , it was very windy and very cold

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0875.jpg

and some pickys after the climb down

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0879.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0881.jpg

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clunk

[Ingieuk]

Wow, thanks guys for the great response!

Nice pictures clunk, looks fun! do you have any from the top of ingleborough?

I was working it out yesterday, we most likley will have 8 hours of daylight, minimum reccomended time for this walk seems to be around 12 hours so the walk into Phen-y-ghent and the summit of ingleborough (with its veiwpoint) would be in darkness.

Considering this I met up with the guys last night and we have decided to most likely to do ingleborough setting off at around half 7am, come down n check out a cave at the base (anyone know anything about it?).

Then we will probably have a couple of hours of daylight left, might go have a play on some "of the best bouldering in the country." Though I've never tried it myself.

Maria, the shoes are in the list simply so i can drive home so i shouldn't really have included them in my list.

As we are no longer going to go for the full challenge (:mad:) i think i can safley leave my sleeping bag in the tent.

Insulation wise; I was origianally planning on using the spare baselayer and the softshell as insulation for when we have stopped, but work has just got some RAB vapour rise gear in, so hmmmmmmm.

My head torch is a £30 Petzl thing, so it should be well up to the job.

None of us however have a water purifier, but it isn't totally nesecary now.

Have no fear though, when just a smidgen more daylight shows it's face early next year we will go for the whole thing. there was even talk of doing it as a night walk.

Anyone know anything about this mysterious cave at the bottom?

Please point out anything I have got wrong! I'll take some pics for you so you can see our ugly mugs and the beautiful scenery:D

Thanks once again,

Rich

[clunk]

hi ritch , those petzle lamps are great , i got the tiga plus and the batteries never seem to wear out lol,
as for pickys at the top of ingleborough ,,, errrm as you can see the cloud decended and we couldnt see more than a few yards at the summit

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0993.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0994.jpg

but on the way to the base of the walk / climb up the side , it was a loverly sunny day

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0982.jpg

this one shows the full length of the path

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0979.jpg

i think the cave your on about is below sulber nick , if you google ingleborough walks , then one of the web sights shows you the cave in question
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clunk

[clunk]

and if your coming from the whernside side you will pass this big hole called ( and im'e not joking ) wife hole lol

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0973.jpg

and this is mi mate reaching the top of the main climb up ingleborough , its very steep ( i did most of it on all fours )

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0988.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0987.jpg

that was us stopping for a rest on a less steep bit

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clunk

[MariaD]

Sorry - I'm a sad geek, I know! I just find calculating wind chill interesting... :p

Some gorgeous photos there! I particularly like the one of the descent.

Ingieuk, it's a pity you're not going to do it. I reckon you'd be fine with just 8hrs daylight - walking in the dark can be good fun!

Whereabouts are you planning to go bouldering? I don't know anything about the cave at the bottom, but I do know a few of the crags round there.

And regarding the Vapour Rise - I have one and I love it! I even have the trousers to go with it.

[Ingieuk]

Just had a bit of a google for the cave (which is on Ol2 at 753711 btw) and brought this up http://www.ingleboroughcave.co.uk/index.shtml ....so doubt they'll let us clamber anywhere near that.

Those crags sound interesting maria as i havn't had chance to read....i mean......advise a customer about.....any of the yorkshire guides from work, though i remember one called "yorkshire grit". But if you've got any reccomendations for some (not too hard!:p) bouldering please spill the beans!

Walking in the dark is great fun especially when your with your mates, though not having walked in the area puts me off but will most definitly will return.

With regards to the headtorch, i think mines just the tikka but it's good on batteries, i used mine as a makshift bed side lamp for about 8 months on one set of batterys!

Great photos clunk! I'm surprised by the lack of sheep though!

Cheers,
Rich

[MariaD]

For the Ingleton area, Yorkshire Limestone is the guide you want - Yorkshire Grit is all further east & south than that.

For bouldering, it's got to be Almscliff or Brimham Rocks, which are miles away, but there's plenty of easy soloing to be had in the Dales if you don't want to take a rope.

[clunk]

no prob's maria , im'e a bit of a geek about stuff working right , if it dosent then i bin it
you want sheep ritch ? this is a classic one i took for a lad at work ( hese realy into sheep :confused: )

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0896.jpg

all lined up and gaggin for it :D

this is one i took of a womans ars* , she was very good looking and i couldn't resist lol

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0887.jpg

whats bouldering by the way ?
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clunk

[Special_K]

From Wikipedia :-

Bouldering is a style of rock climbing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_climbing) undertaken without a rope and normally limited to very short climbs so that a fall will not result in serious injury. It is typically practiced on large boulders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulder) or artificial man-made boulders. However, it may also be practiced at the base of larger rock faces, or even on buildings or public architecture

[clunk]

:) thanks mate , i think il'e leave that to the pro's :o, i thought it was clambering over boulders lol
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clunk

[MariaD]

It is clambering over boulders! Nothing more complicated than that.

[Special_K]

Looks quiet an interesting sport, saw loads doing it on the way up Pen-Y-Pas earlier in the year.

[Ingieuk]

Its a great sport. especially if your a climber that is scared of heights :D

I enjoy big stuff but maaaan, gets the old heart pounding!

We are hoping for some hard frost, giving some nice clear skies. Can't wait! Its been far too long!

Thought I'd post my ugly mug (well a bit of it!) so you know who is behind the computer.

Cheers,
Rich

[Special_K]

When are you going Ingieuk??

Looks like most of us will be in the great outdoors in one form or another over xmas. :)

[Ingieuk]

26th December, going over about 4 (bout an hour and a half drive from where i am) i think. Setting off wallking about half 7am ish (what iv planned is about 15 miles according to GPS) maybe get some bouldering done before its dark then either drive home or have some tea then drive home. 'cos I'll be at work on the 28th!

Good to hear!
Rich

[MariaD]

I won't be outdoors over Christmas, but I will for New Year :D

[Ingieuk]

Well! We've been and come back-albeit muddier and wetter than when we went!

I really enjoyed the trip despite the weather (it is december though), and will be going back in mid Jan to do Phen-y-ghent and then later Whernside (small steps but we'll get there) then in around march time have a crack at all three.

My little gelert £20 tent held up to the howling gale - will be taking earplugs next thime though!

The weather was truly awful and I've decided GPS's arn't for me (I was given one to test) but i loved all of it, only dissapointment was getting to the top of Inglebrough and not being able to see anything!

Horton-in-Ribblesdale is a lovely place with two fantastic pubs, typical Dales village. It took us 3 hours to get there due to flooded roads and a wrong turning at Hawes. I'll attach a couple of photos for you all.

Just like to say thanks to everyone who has given us advice!

On a more sombre note the same night we stayed two people unfortunatly were killed whilst caving, one of them coming from the same town as I do which left a humbled impression on all of us.

Cheers,
Rich

P.S. The guy in the middle is Andy and on the left is Tom, I'm the one in the blue. That is about as much as you could see at the top!

[David]

I love the tent photo. Sums up camping in one image to me ;)

[Ingieuk]

lol yeah it was veerrry wet and one of the few times my pocketrocket didn't blow out. Wayfarer boil in the bag meals are the best! :D

[clunk]

great report and pickys ritch , and that picky of ingleborough summit was as good as most peeps get lol :D
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clunk

[Ingieuk]

Yeah i was talking to a lady in the post office and she was saying most people choose to go up Inglebrough but she doesn't know why as it's the first one to go into cloud. It was gale force winds most of way up but on the top was amazing, I'm not a small guy near 16 stone and 6 foot 3 and i was getting buffeted about, ciratinly an experience!

Thanks, no skill needed for those pics - i love modern cameras lol

[Marmot]

thats why being a short arse and a skinny frames wins out - less surface area for the wind to catch!

[clunk]

this is one of only two ocasions iv'e seen inglebourough free of cloud this year , the first was on the way to penyghent and this one was taken when we were up whernside :confused:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/cuberdlad/IMG_0955.jpg

we are hoping to go up there in the new year when its snowing ( fingers crossed )
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clunk

[Ingieuk]

Does anyone know if there is snow up there at the moment? Going back on the 20th (week today) to do pen-y-ghent or Whernside, not sure which yet. I don't have an axe or crampons (not sure if it gets bad enough to warrant them though) but if needs be i can 'borrow' an axe from work.

Anyone got any experience of pen-y-ghent? best/most scenic routes up? any scrambling up the side?

Thanks once again guys!
Rich

[MariaD]

There's no real snow at that level at the moment, but keep checking the forecasts. You should be fine in just a pair of boots.

[clunk]

:) hi rich , if you go up the front of penyghent then that is the only scrambling / climbing to be done on there , its very steep but quite easy in summer wen its dry , but ( and its a big but ) if its raining , windy and cloudy then it can be very dodgy indeed mate , after scrambling up the loose boulders , you finish off with a short climb to the path on top , the trouble is the boulders are grit stone and they get very very slippy when wet ,
its doable but be carefull
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clunk

[Ingieuk]

Thanks guys.
Sounds like fun clunk! I'll see what it's like when i get there as to if the scrambling is an option.

Rich

[Malcolm L]

I did all three in a day in winter a couple of years ago. I can't remember which ones are which, but I finished on the one directly West of Horton. The path down is absolutely fine in the dark as long as you have a good head torch. BUT getting onto the path from the summit can be a bit tricksy if the visibility is very bad so take care.

I wouldn't discount the gps completely. Of course you need to make sure all your basic navigational skills are up to scratch, but if you get clagged in on a summit in foul weather, and are basically LOST WITHOUT HOPE, it can literally be a life safe if you can get a fix from the GPS so that you can find yourself on the map again and start navigating from a known point. If you are going into serious environments and have the option, it's daft not to take it. But as I said elsewhere, don't start trying to work it out on your important day. Practice on a clear day and use it to back up your normal navigation rather than replace it.

I'm no expert, I just learned the hard way. I do also have a tendency to be a bit of a gadget freak (just got my self a Suunto Core altimeter/barometer/compass watch thingy) but I do try and restrain myself and learn a bit more about "proper" navigation each time I go out. Oh, and of course, don't forget spare batteries! If you are worried about the weight, ditch the spare underpants. It's not that scary.

Having said that, in the past a fell runner got injured doing the circuit and died of exposure. (Read "Feet in the Clouds" - an inspiring account of the history and practice of fell running). I always make the assumption that something just might go wrong and have the storm shelter, fluids, food and first aid kit in the pack. I also have a small flashing LED bike light to tape to my trek pole. If you are huddled down in your storm shelter or bivvy bag its useful if others who may be looking for you can see you. Some of the Mountain First Aid Kits come with a strobe light. Even if you don't get injured, you may come across someone else that is in dire straits in the snow, without the right gear, and save their life.
Cheers. M

[clunk]

Thanks guys.
Sounds like fun clunk! I'll see what it's like when i get there as to if the scrambling is an option.

Rich
rich , there is no option mate , if your going up penyghent then you have to do the scramble , either up ways or down ways , i did it both ways ( ooo eerr ) last year and its easyer going up the front rather than down it , dont worry about it , just be carefull :)
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clunk,
ohh and dont forget to visit hull pot , its only a short walk off the path