urbanisation

[Vicky4]

Hello,
Bit new to this and din't know which thread to reply to, but wounderd with all the comments about people being unprepared, mountain rescue, health and safety, do you feel places with sighnposted footpaths, artifical surfaces and Snowdon with it's cafe and train, are mountain areas becoming too urbanised and commercial? and makaing people think mountain walking is easier than it is?

[kingley]

I think lots of people do indeed go out unprepared and attempt their weekend walks up mountains especially in summer. Usually they do come down ok.
But every so often they set off too late in the day, or have an accident (twisted ankles, etc), are unprepared and often this is when problems occur.
It's always better for people to prepare properly before they go out, and to have some basic knowledge of navigation using maps, etc. They should always take food and water and suitable clothing.
I do agree that due to the fashion status of these places that some people have an unrealistic sense of what's involved in outdoor activities.

But some people are just plain stubborn and will not listen to any advice no matter how good it is. These people will always go up mountains in t-shirts and trainers.
I have some friends who walk every week in woodlands and lakeside type terrain and try as I might I can't even get them to invest in boots and waterproofs!! They think that kind of gear is for serious climbers. Try as I might I can't change their minds.

[Ant]

Wecome to Goxplore Vicky. Feel free to tell us bit about yourself in the break the Ice forum.

[Ollie]

Hi Vicky,

Firstly, welcome to GoXplore!

You make a good point, which I think a lot of people on here will have views on one way or the other! Personally, I'm in two minds. I think that in some cases, such as with Snowdon, it might be taking it a bit far, but I'm all for making the mountains as accessible as possible, as long as it's kept safe and tidy. I personally think that the outdoors scene can sometimes be a bit cliquey, and I think it's a shame that more people don't show an interest in it. Hopefully, if more people came to appreciate the beauty that surrounds us, the population of the world might start caring a bit more for the environment around them!

That's not to say that I want to see ski lifts and ice cream vans on every major mountain, but I don't think we should allow an 'us and them' situation to develop.

Ollie

[MariaD]

people will always go up mountains in t-shirts and trainers

But I, and pretty much every other fell runner, have gone up mountains in t-shirt & trainers! This photo on Snowdon (http://www.goxplore.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=189&catid=searchresults&searchid=652) was taken while wearing trainers. I also enjoy running & walking in woodland or lakeside terrain, but there is no way I'd invest in boots & jackets just for that.

Just today I went climbing on a high moorland crag without taking boots, waterproofs, map, compass, headtorch or survival bag. And it wasn't unsafe.

I know the hill well enough to walk up it blindfold; I took gloves, a hooded softshell & a fleece (I didn't use them because it was so warm but had more than enough to keep me warm in an emergency); in the event of an accident I was less than 15mins hobble/crawl from the nearest road & I left well before sunset.

The difference between a well prepared person and a poorly prepared one is not necessarily the gear on their back - having "all the gear and no idea" is just as bad as not having enough gear. The most important thing is judgement - knowing what's appropriate for the conditions & terrain, knowing your own limits and knowing the limits of your kit. Someone who has good judgement can stay safe with less kit, because they know when to turn back, when it's appropriate to go lightweight and when it's necessary to carry the kitchen sink.

As regards urbanisation, I think there is an increasing tendency for people to believe that everything should and can be totally safe. 100% safety is impossible in the mountains, regardless of the kit you're carrying, but many people don't really understand the concept of places where you have to be self-reliant & use your judgement to stay safe. At the end of the day, your safety is nobody's responsibility but your own.

[kingley]

I never said that people shouldn't do it Maria.
When a person has the experience and knowledge then it's a calculated risk.
You did take precautions and took some gear in case the weather changed as any sensible person would.
My point was that there are always some people who go into any wilderness area without any knowledge and /or gear and take unnecessary risks. At the same time these people can also put others lives at risk sometimes when they have to be rescued.
I just think that a little forethought on their part would serve them well, and improve their enjoyment of the great outdoors.

[clunk]

Hello,
Bit new to this and din't know which thread to reply to, but wounderd with all the comments about people being unprepared, mountain rescue, health and safety, do you feel places with sighnposted footpaths, artifical surfaces and Snowdon with it's cafe and train, are mountain areas becoming too urbanised and commercial? and makaing people think mountain walking is easier than it is?
in a word ,, yes ,
one thing people forget about is fitness , the fitter you are the better you can deal with a bad situation , ie; if you twist your ankle then upper body strength would come into play ect,
if i am going somwhere i know then i will take the minimum of stuff ( waterproofs food and water if its a long walk ),
if i dont know the area then i will take more than what i normaly would , it's just common sense realy ,
and as has been said before , you are responsible for yourself , so be prepaired to look after yourself

[MariaD]

Fair enough ishepster!

I do think that, if anything, there is too much emphasis on gear though. A lot of people are under the impression that if you buy the latest top-spec kit nothing can go wrong. We know this is untrue - people with hypothermia have died with survival kit still in their rucksack & extreme conditions can kill even the most experienced & best kitted out mountaineer - but if you believe that your kit will keep you 100% safe then you're more likely to carry on when good judgement would make you turn back.

I think there should be more emphasis on individual judgement and self-reliance, as it's only when you've developed those that you can make sound decisions about appropriate gear & behaviour in the hills. And what's appropriate for one person may not be appropriate for another - it's up to the individual to decide based on thier own ability and experience.

I also think that there is a lot of hype surrounding so-called extreme sports. The "go for it" mantra is a bad one when applied to mountain environments. There is a lot of truth in the saying: "Discretion is the better part of valour" - knowing when to call it a day is far more admirable than ploughing on regardless with no thought to worsening conditions.

[wandering_fox]

There are no simple answers unfortunetly.

Hiking is and should be one of the easiest hobbies to take up. You don't need any special gear, you can just look out the window see the weather is good and go for a walk. The more people who do this, the better - apart from the crowded hills and erosion issues.

However there is progression from going for a walk through to alpine mountaineering. The more you progress the more personal experiance you need and probably the more technical gear you require. However progress isn't obvious. Some terrain is sometimes suitable for trainers and sometimes isn't, and until you've made a mistake and learnt from it, it won't always be obvious that all the advice floating around does apply to you. Unfortunetly some people make serious mistakes.

I'd prefer my hills unspoilt, without cafes or roads.

But last weekend on a goregeous trip through the peaks I'd have killed for an ice-cream van at any of the major carparks we walked through. Not one in sight.