Unprepared Tourists

[Taff Craven]

What does annoy, last time i was sat on Foel Fras (mountain in Snowdonia) having a cup of tea, a tourist turns up in shorts and sweatshirt with a GPS and tiny bumbag no pack, with his wife in shorts and jacket and then his two kids aged about 3 & 5 neither of them wearing proper clothes or footwear. The whole summit was covered in cloud you could not see more than 20 yards, and he said he was heading for Carnedd Llewellyn, which is even higher! They had no map and were totally reliant on the GPS.:eek:

Do people in the city know nothing of mountains?:confused:, Somebody died on Moel Siabod last weekend, Asthma Attack, dead by the time the helicopter reached hospital.

[allanscot]

I have a friend that called my from half way up Ben Nevis they had decided to go over and climb it because it was a nice day!

They had no jackets and just trainers, a 2L bottle of irn-bru and 6 muffins between 3.

All mobile phones ran out of battery because they made lots of long phone calls!

What is worse is that they decided to take short cuts off the path because it was getting dark on the way down. People don’t understand the dangers the outdoors can bring like we do! They have listened to me go on about the safety/equipment/skill you need but they seam to think it is just something I do because I’m usually out with groups!

[Ollie]

There are horror stories all over the net, and media, about this kind of thing. I'm starting to have conflicting views over the idea of a 'nanny state' with this kind of thing going on.

I don't suddenly decide one day I'm going to go rally driving, which is in some ways probably less dangerous than going up on a hill unprepared, and yet people just decide to take a ramble up the nearest mountain because they feel like it?

[Survivaldon]

Where I live we have thousands of tourists every summer. One of the big attractions is to go "mountain climbing." While there are ample guide services, there are those who think that they can go it alone without a guide.

These are what we call "Yuppies" (Young Urban Professional People.) None of which have any clue what it is like to try something like that.

The mountain that they set out to "conquer" is over 13,000 ft. in elevation. Needless to say Search & Rescue ends up being dispatched for an extrication off the mountain.

Most who venture up the mountain (un-guided) are not prepared for it!

City folk....AIYYYYYYYYYYY!!!! :p

[motted orange green]

Where I live there are more forests than mountains. There was one time I was camping in this really really unknown patch of forest with my friends when out of nowhere this bunch of teenagers appear, carrying filming gear (huge furry microphones and all).
Luckily we were there cos when they appeared it was already night time and they were not prepared at all. We had to give them our food and lead them out of the place.
Appears that they had gone "for a little hike" in the forest to film somthing for a school project. I mean, at least do some research on the place or go to somewhere that being lost is less of an option!

[pte_womble]

I share your disbelief. :eek:

But then part of me thinks of "Darwin's Law". Isn't it ultimately better for the human race that the idiots in our species kill themselves off? ;)

[MariaD]

To be fair:

1) Not having a rucksack doesn't equal 'unprepared'. Steve Perry (the guy who did all the Munroes last winter) did lots of the ascents with his gear in a bumbag so he could go fast & light. Also, most fell runners would only take a bumbag with them. Are they unprepared?

2) An asthma attack can happen anywhere and kill anywhere. Whether or not you've got a full mountain survival kit with you wouldn't make the tiniest bit of difference!

I do think that some people are very ignorant of how dangerous mountains can be, but I think you can go too far the other way too! A year or so ago I was heading up Great Gable at about 7pm. It was summer and there were hours of daylight left so I planned to find somewhere high up to wild camp. I met a guy who marched up to me very purposefully and announced that I was "going the wrong way, you know!". I replied that I wasn't lost and was fine, thank you very much. He then blocked my path and told me to turn around and go back, as I was heading away from Wasdale. I pointed out that I was intending to head away from Wasdale, as I was going to find somewhere to camp. He looked incredulous and informed me that I should definitely head back as the hills were "far too dangerous" and I was sure to die if I spent a night outside, despite the fact that I was obviously absolutely fine! I politely told him where to go, at which point he went off into a rant about "taking mountain safety seriously"....!

Whilst everyone should inform themselves about mountain safety, surely it's extremely condescending to imply that some people can't be trusted on the hills? Not everyone can afford all the latest gear and on most British summer days you don't need it!

I've been for plenty of hill walks wearing trainers and shorts, with nothing more than a 'shower-proof' jacket and light fleece tied round my waist. It's not appropriate on high mountains, in winter or in adverse weather, but on a hot, dry, summer day - why not? Fell runners do it! A quick look at a weather chart which shows isobars will tell you whether or not any really serious weather is approaching.

[MariaD]

(I'm not in any way saying that going up Ben Nevis with no jacket & a bottle of Irn Bru, substituting a map for GPS, or climbing a 13,000ft mountain with no experience is okay, btw!)

[Bigjimlakeakaray]

I always go with the scout motto: Be Prepared!

Whenever I go out for a ramble, no matter how short or local, I always take water, some food (rolls, nuts etc), string, penknife, first aid kit, lightweight poncho (can be doubled up as shelter), and even one of those compact army stoves. You just never know what could happen, and its doesn't way too much at all. Also, be smart. Don't carry a jumper if its baking hot, and likewise, don't put your suntan cream in when it's raining horizontally. Carry a mobile phone or change for pay phone, and always know where you are going to walk. I agree about GPS's. They are merely a trendy way to find yourself on a map and you don't even need them. Compass and an OS is all you need.

Perhaps worse than underprepared Yuppies are the overprepared ones. You know the type. They have their matching outer shells, brand new, water camels, a combined penknife/torch/corkscrew/car-keys, and are saying things like: "Let's take a picture of that adorable local fellow".

Be sensible, and be prepared. I would say, knowledge weighs nothing.

[Bigjimlakeakaray]

And also, a handkerchief. Where-ever you go, be it to the shops or the peak of Ben Nevis, have one in your pocket (and if you're like me, a spare one!)

[MariaD]

"no matter how short or local"

Really? For a short local stroll or jog (say Ilkley Moor, a very short distance from my house) I might take an apple and a small bottle of water. If I'm running I may not even bother with those.

I wouldn't take a showerproof jacket unless it was actually raining when I set off. I'd rarely, if ever, take a full waterproof. Half the time I wear jeans to go mushroom picking or strolling in the evening - it saves having to get changed!

I wouldn't take a map as it'd be totally redundant - like carrying an OS map to walk to the local post office or high street! I've walked every single path on Ilkley Moor dozens of times and I know it like the back of my hand. Shepherds don't carry a compass, but they don't get lost, do they?

When 'serious' walkers look at me they probably think I'm unprepared, but local knowledge goes a long way. I've never had anyone try to take a picture of me though - maybe I'm not adorable enough!

[insane_climber]

ollie will take a pic of u

[Bigjimlakeakaray]

Be Prepared!
Hands up if you were a scout (just post a reply, ta).

[MariaD]

But if you always prepare for everything then you'll end up carrying snake venom antidotes (and a lot of other things) whenever you leave the house! What's the point? Sometimes doing no preparation whatsoever is perfectly sensible - it depends on the circumstances.

I wan't a scout, in case you hadn't guessed... :)

[insane_climber]

i was in the scouts, i cant remeber the last time i had a map with me in the chilterns

[Bigjimlakeakaray]

I don't carry a map in the Chilterns, maybe I didn't make myself clear. Like MariaD said, I know them like the back of my hand.
No more scouts?

[Reuben]

Are you Ray Mears?

[MariaD]

Ray Mears would never carry a stove - he'd fashion a handy barbeque using a couple of leaves and a few pebbles and cook a squirrel on it (catching the squirrel in a willow twine trap). Then he'd make a mobile phone from some twigs and bits of spiderweb and call his friends to bring some beer. (He would have brewed it himself from mushrooms and sheep droppings, but it takes too long to be used at short notice)

[David]

Heh, come on Maria, be serious! There's no way you could make a maobile phone out of twigs and spiderweb. You'd need at least some iron ore and a lump of magnetic rock (and mabey a lemon for the batteries!)

Do I take it that you aren't a fan of his? - I can't tell if you are just having a joke or gently poking fun at that attitude as well. Personally, I think what he does is great; I don't know how 'authentic' or whatever the stuff he does is, but it seems like a fantastic hobby to me.

[MariaD]

Actaully, I am a fan of his - it was a lighthearted joke rather than a dig. I love his programs - his enthusiasm is so genuine. Also, I have to respect anyone who can whittle his own spoon! :D

You're right about needing other stuff for the mobile phone though....

[Bigjimlakeakaray]

I have whittled two spoons, with very pleasing results (i.e-ending up with an actual spoon), and last week I fashioned an oil lamp out of a lump of chalk and some vegetable oil (David, it was the chalk we found at Ivinghoe Beacon).
And no, I'm not Ray Mears, but I am going to see him in October.

[Ant]

And no, I'm not Ray Mears, but I am going to see him in October.

Thats a shame, no offense meant, just be a great boost to the forum if otherwise :rolleyes:.

only person with skills like ray who I've met made me a nice cup of tea with a kelly kettle on the shore of a sea loch.

[David]

Wow; when are you going to see Ray, Jim?

[Ollie]

"no matter how short or local"

Really? For a short local stroll or jog (say Ilkley Moor, a very short distance from my house) I might take an apple and a small bottle of water. If I'm running I may not even bother with those.

I guess it depends how far you are from home - if you're going for a half hour circular jog I guess the longest you could be away from home would be 20 minutes (allowing for hills and things), and I doubt an awful lot could happen to you in that time, unless you got injured I suppose.

I think the better motto might be 'Be appropriately prepared'!

only person with skills like ray who I've met made me a nice cup of tea with a kelly kettle on the shore of a sea loch.

But he made the Kelly kettle out of sheep's wool, right? It's like the outdoors version of Blue Peter - here's one I made earlier! ;)

[insane_climber]

and i though the inside of my head was weird

[Ollie]

I think I could probably vouch for that :p

[insane_climber]

but some of the ideas on this site are even more weird than the world inside my head

[David]

all the ideas you've seen on this site are in your head now, though...

[Bigjimlakeakaray]

Ah dear.
Dave, I'm going to see Ray in October at the new Dunstable theatre, with other explorer scouts from district.

[Bigjimlakeakaray]

And I need to get a picture of me, not said Ray Mears.

[Ollie]

You'll have to let us know how he is - I can't imagine him doing a 'show' as such - I'm guessing that's what it is? Or is it part of another type of different event? What is it, just story telling?

Ollie

[MariaD]

He does courses on bushcraft - maybe it's something like that?

[Ant]

You'll have to let us know how he is - I can't imagine him doing a 'show' as such - I'm guessing that's what it is? Or is it part of another type of different event? What is it, just story telling?

Ollie

see here (http://www.raymears.com/ray.cfm?id=130&sec=whatsrayupto)

[Ollie]

Aaah fair enough! Thought it might be. I might try and catch him at the Wycombe Swan then!

[Ant]

I'll be trying to do the same at Llandudno.
Although If I want to go on a bushcraft course, I think I'll go here http://www.islaybushcraft.co.uk/ He's got plans for a new course:
Bushcraft Biking recce - working with four folks looking at the possibilities of exploring nature on mountainbikes. We had great views of a blue Merlin, Hen Harrier, Swallows, Chough as well as enjoying moving through the wilderness on singletrack and then spending the night under the stars eating foraged food. Fanatstic - looks like we will run a couple next year...all being well.

[Ant]

I'll be trying to do the same at Llandudno.

Just booked tickets for ray's talk here.

[Anand]

http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/28699.jpg

Some country's even use this kind of signs to warn people not to go into the hills unprepared.

[David]

I love the top part of the sign! :D

[dasy2k1]

you may think it strange but i have seen people in high heels at the top of snowdon (on easter monday when it was -20 at the top with windchill, high winds, horizontal Hailstones the size of peas and 3 foot of snow on the ground) they also had no water and insufficant clothing

the conditions were such that allthough we had planned to use the pig and miners trails we had aborted and taken the easier route (parrelel to the railway)

[David]

i have seen people in high heels at the top of snowdon

You must be joking surely? Or could they have got the train up?

[MariaD]

They obviously got the train, and it's not like the top of Snowdon is remote. They would get down okay even if they fell & broke their leg walking the 10 yards from the platform to the summit. So it's not really very reckless.

[dasy2k1]

i suppose they could have got the train to halfway then walked the rest,
they defiantly didn't get it any further because the trains were only running to rocky valley due to the bad weather,
above Clogwyn the tracks were too buried in snow for the train to get through